I just want to start this post off by saying I hope everyone who knew about it promoted the awareness of suicide prevention today! It was hashtag suicideawarenessday. And it seemed fitting to mention the idea of suicidal ideas or notions during this topic of time, personality traits, inherent feelings about certain issues and the ways these all impact our notion of happiness.
CLAUSE: If I do not specifically state "it is of my opinion that" I am probably playing devils advocate and it does not mean I believe one way or the other on certain issues. The questions I pose are just to make you think, and interject your own ideas and thoughts in the comments below.
The discussion went in so many different directions today it was hard to follow where we were going or where we started from, but the first thing I will address is the idea that William said he never thought he would get tired of music and Dean and Dr. Oliver responded with "because you're young" and "you'll get there". Is this true? If some of us feel as if the older we get the more "boring" things will become, do we feel that way for other concepts? Love, for example, is much like happiness in the idea that we cannot find a singular definition of what it is, nor can we give one answer as to how to obtain this thing we call love. So after time, does our love for things diminish as well? I am under the opinion that love develops and grows and starts as this bud and slowly over times opens and blossoms. We see its layers and appreciate its beauty as it continues to grow. My opinion about happiness in terms of its longevity is that if something makes me truly happy, then I will only continue learning the ins and outs of this thing and appreciate it more and more everyday. It will continue to give me immense joy, even into eternity.
Second: can we truly ever speak about something we know nothing about? Can we speak about an infinite amount of time as if we "know" exactly what will be like? Does this eternity we try to discuss ever change? Maybe we as a species evolve, as we have, with the shifting environment that is Earth and things become completely different and new and life never loses its "luster". Speaking on things that have no direct correlation to us or our immediate future generations will not be a part of our lives once we're dead. If the world implodes after I die, ... ok. Who cares? Why does it matter what happens after we don't exist? It won't affect us in any way, so why should it affect our present?
Lastly: Supernaturalist vs. Naturalist.
This IS something I have always been interested in. Mainly through the eyes of a sociologist. I am fascinated at the ideas of symbolic interactionism and the way society and culture influences the individual. Some students mentioned the idea that " I just can't believe in that"... why? What makes you not be able to feel a certain way? It certainly isn't because we are popped out thinking a certain way. Also, as mentioned, people can be extremely devout in their beliefs and knowledge becomes known or beliefs shift and finally someone may be able to fathom something they once thought impossible, or dismiss beliefs they once had. Personally, I am a practicing Christian and I believe certain things, but I was not raised in the church. My parents did not spend time teaching me about the idea of Christianity and I slowly took my time to have an open mind and learn and felt my heart being pulled in this direction. I don't think there is anything in this world that we can ever say "I don't think I could ever believe that" or "I'll never see that as a way to make me happy" and the debate on religion, or anything really and its impact on happiness will never have a true answer.
And to end this blurb: Most of you will read this on September 11th, and my heart and yes, my prayers go out to all those who have suffered or had the loss of someone during this unfortunate moment in history.
Bringing up personality relating to happiness reminded me of a something we talked about in summer class about how much of one’s personally originates from how they were treated as infants and affects different areas throughout their livfe including happiness. The chart on this page was all I was really focusing on. It seems like people that are insecure may have trouble ever staying happy or at least it would be difficult to just change your personality to be more open to view happiness. http://www.helpguide.org/mental/eqa_attachment_bond.htm
ReplyDelete"So after time, does our love for things diminish as well?"
ReplyDeleteNo, you just have a misunderstanding of love.
"can we truly ever speak about something we know nothing about?"
If you don't know then there is no truth in what you say.
"I don't think I could ever believe that"
"I'll never see that as a way to make me happy"
You just built a barrier around yourself.
Have a good time philosophizing with that nonsense.
"If you hold firmly to some set of beliefs or other, you look at everything through that particular prejudice or tradition; you don't have any contact with reality."
-Krishnamurti
Also, what is so bad about suicide?
If I don't want to live anymore why can I not take my own life?
This is my decision not yours. You don't know anything about
my reasons or anyone else's, just that silly view they're all sad
and need a hug.
One word, Mahasamādhi. Check it son.
Hi oaf,
DeleteI'm excited about your commitment to, as you say "one word," Mahasamādhi.
From what I understand, this is where one consciously and intentionally leaves one's body at the time of enlightenment. I think this is awesome! This often happens to me after I drink a 12-pack of Corona and throw on a mess of Motown classics. Trouble being I can't always remember exactly what I did during that time.
If this is true and you can actually remember things, the James Randi Foundation will pay you a million dollars ($1,000,000.00) to publicly demonstrate the Mahasamādhi. I think all you would have to do is verify a few words or numbers written down in a separate room from where you body would be located. This would be simple while your enlightened self is taking a stroll. Easy peasy!!
Here's the link to the Randi's site where you can fill out the application: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
Let us know when your appointment is scheduled.
With a million dollars you wouldn't even need to take a class on happiness or even find it: you could just buy it, or as the incomparable David Lee Roth quipped," buy a yacht and pull right up beside it." I ain't talking 'bout love!
Maybe after you win, you'd we willing to enlighten the class with a round or two of beer some Thursday at the Boulevard. After all, Kat, James, Jon, Dr. O and I are running up a pretty big tab while discussing the reality of happiness.
Besides, who wouldn't want revel in the satisfaction of proving someone wrong, the very ones who think what we both can do is some sort of "philosophizing with that nonsense."
Cheers!
You're being a bit too dismissive of possible discussions here, I feel. I'd like to know your reasoning behind these blanket-statement denials like such as "No, you just have a misunderstanding of love" and "If you don't know then there is no truth in what you say."
DeleteThose sound void of philosophical exploration to me. What is your understanding of love and how could you position it above all others? Why? To what ends? What experiences have you had? Technically, it can be said that none of us "know" anything, or that there is no "truth." So, how can you so quickly dismiss those that try to talk of something they know little about as being devoid of truths that, in light of MANY philosophical debates, might not even exist?
I dunno, man. I'd like to talk to you more about some of this stuff, but I'm with everyone else here--Who are you?
Further, I totally agree with you about suicide. The right to live is just as justifiable as the right to die. I will have to say that, in many cases, there IS a sense of selfishness on the part of those that commit suicide with conviction that no one cares about them when there are plenty of people that do. Some cases have a sort of "victim" attitude that I don't really think is solved by suicide and the proliferation of that being an "easy way out." However, I come back to my initial statements on the matter--It's their right to do it. That doesn't mean I have to approve of all of the cases :P
Even further, literally NO ONE is outside of a set of beliefs held. That's impossible.
DeleteHey there I'm Brennan.
DeleteMy experience comes from reading a bunch of crazy people.
Sorry if my texts come off as dismissive, just trying to put my ideas out there.
I could give you some fun quotes about love or experience,
but I'd rather say find out what these things are for yourself.
The point of this class is not to shove quotes at people with a mantra about self-discovery. We're trying to discuss and explore these topics, and I find it kind of offensive that you blatantly state what you personally believe then tell us to go find out for ourselves when we inquire about what your reasoning is. That's kind of rude, dude...especially in a philosophy class, wherein the goal of course is not to provide answers but rather to ask questions and provoke thought about them. Your reading "crazy" people sounds judgmental without any explanation, for example.
DeleteFurther, you didn't even attempt to answer any of the questions that I already posed to you. I'm not really interested in any sort of discussion with someone who doesn't take into account what other people have said. :/ This is troubling, especially considering our commonality of Coheed and Cambria.
DeleteWhat then, in your opinion is misconstrued about love? And does this correlate to happiness over time as well? Do we misunderstand happiness? Also, who are you? I don't see you on the class list or in our list of contributors, and I'd love to put a face to a name so we can discuss further in class your ideas. Also, if you are a part of our class discussion, please post a factual and discussion question for next weeks reading so you may get credit in class on the scorecards
ReplyDeleteYes, "oaf," please declare yourself. (You're not an Interloper, are you?)
ReplyDeleteIn fact, I'm going to re-circulate that class list tomorrow and ask all who are using non-transparent email monikers to please list them next to your MTmail address. You don't have to "come out" on site, but you do need to make yourself known to your classmates.
Sorry about that! I'm Brennan!
DeleteUsed writing down usernames so often I didn't even realize my mistake.
I'd like also to clarify: my "you'll get there" just meant that aging is the destiny of the fortunate. I'm definitely not tired of music, nor obviously is our friend Dean (who makes wonderful music himself). Sometimes, in the rapid-fire of classroom discussion, snippets of comment can be stripped from their context and shorn of their intended meaning. I hope none of you ever grows tired of music. Music is life.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward with "Measurement", a factual question:
ReplyDelete"Felicific Calculus" is attributed to _____________?
Answer: Jeremy Bentham
And a discussion question:
What do you think we seek to gain by pinning down some sort of way to "scientifically" measure happiness? Or, what is the motivational factor behind having a numerical/scientific way to quantify/describe happiness?
Simply said, what's the point? :)
In regards to last class and the discussion of growing tired of something: In my own experience, I discovered love or passion for something through music. Doing music gave my life meaning, and it also gave me a wonderful medium of expression. I speak about this all in the past tense because I have been taking a break (for the first time in ten years) from music lately to explore other avenues of life. I don't think I am done with music forever. Even if I choose never to play trumpet again, there's nothing that can undo the imprint that music has made on my life. I wouldn't even be at this university or taking this class if it weren't for music. My experience with music ignited something in me that has caused me to seek out the highest utilization of my potential as a human being on this earth. My time with music has taught me so much about myself and what I want from my life that I feel like my life could go in any direction and my passions could take any form. Music will always be in my heart, and I am not tired of it by any means, but I feel excited about taking the love/energy/perspective it has given me and shifting it in new directions of my life.
I don't know if any of that made sense, but I guess I just wanted to supplement the idea of what it means to "love something" and how basically the "something" might change while the act of loving continues to grow/blossom in new ways/areas of life kind of what Megan was saying.
This poem embodies some of the things that music has taught me:
http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/oriah-mountain-dreamer.html
Hi Rebecca,
DeleteI think you are correct in thinking that doing music can give someone's life meaning. I know it does mine.
I think the "because you're young" and "you'll get there" quip that Dr. O and I made may have gotten, as Dr. O says, "stripped from context."
If I'm not mistaken (and I could be) William said he could not imagine a moment (I'm paraphrasing here) that he wouldn't be happy making or listening to music.
Just for the sake of argument, our response (if I understood Dr. O correctly) is that eventually--and all this was in the context and discussion of living forever--one might want a break from music or discover other passions in life that brings just as much joy. Point being: our passions change. That's not to say that music will be banished from our passions forever, but other passions could be pursued and enjoyed just as well.
I think almost anyone all can recall moments when an object of our affection dominated our existence, an affection which no longer permeates our thoughts and we couldn't imagine living without, e.g., old boyfriend/girlfriend. Some call that love.
That's all I think we were saying.
Play on!
My factual question is similar to yours, Rebecca--
ReplyDeleteWho developed hedonic calculus? Francis Edgeworth
And for discussion, Edgeworth's idea that an attempt to distribute happiness equally was repugnant to the Utilitarian end. While his thought that capacity for happiness could be divided by lines of gender, class or education seems repugnant itself, is it possible that happiness is impossible for some?
And here's a link for a Ted talk about positive psychology and happiness:
http://www.ted.com/talks/martin_seligman_on_the_state_of_psychology.html
can we truly ever speak about something we know nothing about?
ReplyDeleteWe cannot speak of something if "we know nothing about" it, i believe. If we don't have the appropriate language, then we can't speak on it. The limits of our language are the limits of our world, as Wittgenstein says. As far as speaking of an infinite amount of time without experiencing it, all we can do is use our present moment cognitive abilities, our thought-action repertoire, and our memories on past experiences with speculative foresight to remotely conjure up some theory or description of such a thing.
One thing I wanted to mention in class on the topic on living forever, and the many opinions on boredom arising and being the last person on this planet that will not be here forever- There are already plans in the works to establish a permanent human colony on Mars in 2023. Crazy, right? Just think of what other scientific advancements are around the corner. We are living in age where information is free with the tap of a few keys and search engine, high population rates, and plenty of sparked curiosity's on the mysteries of life and science. We can speculate all we want on our modern day position in all realms of intellect, but at the end of the day, it's really all speculation unless we choose to adopt a theory or supernatural order of sorts that we find fitting to give us contentment in our moment-to-moment lives. Also, Kathy, I love Martin Seligman. His book Learned Optimism is quite remarkable. He used to be head of the APA and came up with learned helplessness- He later kickstarted the movement of the study of the psychology of happiness and came up with the learned optimism theory to sort of contrast learned helplessness. He has many books, My particular favorite being Flourish. I'd recommend anyone to check out his books!
Love isn't something that naturally buds and grows without work. It takes intense self-awareness and active reflection with another person to be able to continue watering that love-plant. It's a whole lot easier to fall out of love than to remain in love with someone. We have a tendency to awake from that honeymoon phase, wherein all of the flaws and difficulties of another person are glossed over by awe and splendor, feeling sort of hung over from our love-drunkenness. We start to notice the bad in others, simultaneously denying our own faults--which leads to break ups, cheating, and poor judgments of other people's character based on some very natural hiccups in an individual. Love is only lost when we give up, and often, giving up happens shortly after we realize that nobody's perfect, not even the person we thought totally was (i.e. that honeymoon phase). Instead, love becomes a practice between two (or more, for those polyamorous types) attempting to grow together while remaining separate and whole individuals. It sounds easy, especially at the onset of a new relationship, but the difficulty of discovering more of the love you have for another is just as complex and tumultuous as trying to find the love for yourself.
ReplyDeleteFactual Question for 9/12 :
ReplyDeleteWho were the three psychologists in the forefront of happiness research?
Answer: Jeremy Bentham, John Stuart Mill, Francis Edgeworth
Also here is a really relevant link to a TED talks video from youtube on measuring happiness and if we should or not.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2slvqU1Zajo